I started stickfighting!

If you build it, they will come...
Steel
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:54 am

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Steel » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:59 am

Btw, what do you think of the dog brothers mentioned above and their fighting and training concepts. To me it looks like wild brawling with sticks or knives, but I am still not able to reasonable judge that. Do you train with sparring gear like that?
Oh, and I have to correct myself, the 30 € machete was not the usual price, it is indeed around 50€.
As far as my reading goes, here we stand you are a proponent of the Pekiti concepts, while I -for now- find some fun and something to lern in the (Atillo) Balintawak.
The Gaje line of teaching is very impressive...so is the Bacon line. What a rich world to explore!


Er, no here we dont stand :mozilla_cool: your reading needs some more insight... I am far more ecletic to be "a this style man" or a "that style man" these 1000 or so systems all have something to offer, for example the dog Bros heavy stick brawling as you say but also what may escape your eye is the finesse inside that( and there is finesse in there)

I Dont get lost in names... or become the "style"...how do you not know that I was also into Balintawak Nickelstick Eskrima Grandmaster Nick Elizar teachings (oops dropped another name for you) :mozilla_tongue:

Or German Longsword
Or Italian Bolognese
Or Spanish Destreza

Perhaps I spent all of the last two months exploring on a certain aspect Joachim Meyer's school of thought because I can see its direct application and usefulness. :clap:


Perhaps because you have a background in boxing , you might say to yourself " I am a boxer"...he says " I am a thai fighter " I am a judo"...Long ago this " I am a ...insert label " got removed from my psychology. at the risk of reminding you as a boy in the early 70s we sponged from this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCeduVJW9s

I dont seek a School system style name or art because I remember you could lump all MA under war craft if you were looking for a name.

I seek an effective collection of combat proven / battle field tested skills that I have made as natural as my old self can... "taking the concepts/ suggestions and practises while customising them to myself"..... This involves both looking into a system and looking outside that system for that matrix of effectiveness.

As lee said dont fuss over names. Long ago I even stopped being a "JKD" man.

Yes Gaje , Bacon and MANY MANY others I can think of all offer the answer as they understand it. Its a VERY VERY VERY rich world to explore.

Enjoy your "travels"




Steel
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:54 am

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Steel » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:31 pm

If I am hanging on this thread then I need my daily blade fix or I get withdrawal symptoms... :shifty:


Faust
Posts: 1972
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:53 pm

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Faust » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:59 pm

I have to admit I admire the way you disperse my conclusions, which doesn't happen to often in the real world!
I've read some on Elizar before and in no way I could tell major diferences or approaches of all these GMs. I'm just a noob trying to sort things out ( which by the way is much more fun than to be offered a 'system' and following to the point).

As long as I can understand the mechanics of a motion and grasp it's purpose, I'm good.
I sensed there is something more to the dog brothers fighting than just hitting hard, but still I don't see much of it.
I wonder if I should apply some more real world force to my training...

This whole thing is much more intense than expected. GOOD!
Read Nietzsche

Steel
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:54 am

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Steel » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:57 pm

Faust wrote:I have to admit I admire the way you disperse my conclusions, which doesn't happen to often in the real world!
I've read some on Elizar before and in no way I could tell major diferences or approaches of all these GMs. I'm just a noob trying to sort things out ( which by the way is much more fun than to be offered a 'system' and following to the point).

As long as I can understand the mechanics of a motion and grasp it's purpose, I'm good.
I sensed there is something more to the dog brothers fighting than just hitting hard, but still I don't see much of it.
I wonder if I should apply some more real world force to my training...

This whole thing is much more intense than expected. GOOD!


Re : Dog Bros , see YT Top Dog Carenza below. Mind now block that stick and grab it ( teasing you Faust) :mozilla_tongue:

If you know the History of the Dog Bros roots in USA and back in Philippines and Thailand ( krabi krabong) then you have to pause for thought and not jump to conclusions. Many have said "brawlers without art".... As you said your a noob so your encyclopaedic meta level birds eye view is still maturing .

As you know I have the blessing or curse of Hyperfocus and so since about oh 10 years ago or more I was looking specifically for so called "knife fighting " and all things Swordsmanship, so in that time I got to absorb a lot of hyperfocused study and a gazzilion concepts of approach and their curriculums. So you end up kind of like an encyclopaedia of Eskrima. Added to which I have my own personal Database of "Data study notes" going back to when I first got dedicated broadband. If I couldn't travel all the world to them, then I would bring their curriculum's to me. I live vicariously :drool:

There is a time for FOF ( force on force) training but I would recommend you leave that out for the time being and lay down your basic skills.

If you must go into that FOF arena, then padded gear on...and a choose a known compliant of a single strike feeding drill.... Feed me... THIS ONLY AND ONLY THIS...AND SLOWLY and I will react ...OK...I can handle that compliant fed angle..at that level of force and speed...take it up to say from 10% to 15%... OR OK just leave it at that speed and force for today no more intensity. you get the idea . No need as noob to go full dog bros and just end up wildly surviving on just winging it. Intelligently build the basics.

Then practise handling that incoming and your reaction over and over ...this is modular lesson plan basic approach. I remind you of the Modern warrior blog...he is saying the same thing ...take this one thing and perfect it.


I sensed there is something more to the dog brothers fighting than just hitting hard, but still I don't see much of it.


See some finesse here in carenza.


Faust
Posts: 1972
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:53 pm

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Faust » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:45 pm

I fancy the idea of a somewhat modular approach, which is basically what we try to do. Getting to combine strikes fluently and trying to block what is coming in slow motion mostly.
In between we repeat some (for now) set patterns like Atillos 'mother spar', which basically exercises a feel for the stick and timing.
Just for the fun of it we also exercise some simple disarms, mind you in the most static way, which always messes up when we get a little more dynamic. I like the delicate timing and leverage.
As for striking with more force I thought about the toy swords of my girls (yes, both of them had one long before I started my new adventure and now that they occasionally see me swinging the sticks, they gained even more interest in swinging these things at each other or, preferably, at me). These are made of some kind of foam and in the end it's all fun and safe. But I'll save that for another day.
The Dog Brother's cadenza was mindblowing - a true piece of art!
Not much of that was displayed in the short ytube vids I saw, though.

May I enquire your own training a little bit further, how do you organize your efforts?
Read Nietzsche

Steel
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:54 am

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Steel » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Faust wrote:I fancy the idea of a somewhat modular approach, which is basically what we try to do. Getting to combine strikes fluently and trying to block what is coming in slow motion mostly.
In between we repeat some (for now) set patterns like Atillos 'mother spar', which basically exercises a feel for the stick and timing.
Just for the fun of it we also exercise some simple disarms, mind you in the most static way, which always messes up when we get a little more dynamic. I like the delicate timing and leverage.
As for striking with more force I thought about the toy swords of my girls (yes, both of them had one long before I started my new adventure and now that they occasionally see me swinging the sticks, they gained even more interest in swinging these things at each other or, preferably, at me). These are made of some kind of foam and in the end it's all fun and safe. But I'll save that for another day.
The Dog Brother's cadenza was mindblowing - a true piece of art!
Not much of that was displayed in the short ytube vids I saw, though.

May I enquire your own training a little bit further, how do you organize your efforts?


I have my weekly meetings with the so called "Man from Mindanao"... been doing that since June 2014 so he is the source of authentic analysis and teaching.

So back in 2014 I came to him with all my MA weapons background and essentially tried to blend what he was teaching to what was and remained to be EXACTLY same I had already explored and hence caused no mismatch between my previous data learnings and or useless distractions. He updated and essentially set out HIS lifetime background training and influences circa say approx 1975 ? to 2017 "system" in structured multiple abecedario (Spanish for "alphabet) building on each in practise and how it is in application.This is 1 to 1 private training and really being brought into his house family friends social circle or the "Pilipino mafia" as I joke... ( the old authentic traditional training way back home way) Dinner and great conversations on Eskrima.

I meet up once per week with my big ( German machete purchase) training partner outdoors on the beach near my house, we go over whatever we are wanting to work on from our curriculum. Depending on our objectives that can be as I described to you in my post above with padded sticks or rattan or training sword and protective gear, and drilling an aspect or then sparring that drill. Ranging from do the drill we done compliant to me/ each other... up to now do whatever your "free-flow" non-compliant produces on the spot in the heat of the moment.

I have my solo home or outdoor training, shadow stick sword drills or hybrid circuit training ideas I blend.

It really depends on how you define your objectives and then work back from that set aim.

Example say my Thursday training day objective is I want to handle all incoming sword/ stick thrusts to my face and body, I chunk the drill down to " thrust at me here" ( A CYCLE DRILL) then it can become "thrust at me here and then here" which then can become thrust at me at all thrust angles and all targets at your will and choosing and I have to handle them.This is modular task specific up until that "okay now go at will anywhere"

Okay add cutting to that so its becoming cut and thrust or thrust and cut permutations and I have to handle that. Like I said before an easy often little understood and often overlooked method is "distance sparring" here you get the feel for a fight without the danger of contact while still adjusting your eye, timing, reactions and continuity of skills. Just back off to say 6 feet from each other and spar. Then later you can close that distance as you feel comfortable. I can still chop cut thrust at his targets even from 6 feet away. Its a working visual psychological target silhouette which is mimicking the actual event , a man in front of me with weapon.

I can see if I beat him to it or after it even though we are not making contact. The above free flow of "at will anywhere" can be done in distance sparring also without the jeopardy of contact until you want to do some gradation of contact training. I might then put on my headgear face mask and with padded stick ask for say thrusts to the face.

In a very simple way how did you structure your boxing methods of skills acquisition ? there must have been some structure. I have known guys thrown into spar with others like some sort of fresh meat victim and they were just in the door. Where was the "sparr-ology" for that newbie ?

Same thing here then. Get a progressive training methodology that "replicates the actual event" but is in safe progressive lesson plans.

I will give you an example of training solo ( see YT below) ... you can do to develop skills with the objectives defined by the person on the YTUBE. Listen to his understanding on his stick fighting preferences, and methods and why he does so ? and what he observes as a inferior methods in training?

Then you think " do I see any value in that drill if yes...bingo good copy it or take the bits you think suit , keep it in your methodology, if not bypass ignore it.

Bottom line like I said you are trying to combine upper and lower architecture ( combining foot and weapon) as one trained/ skilled fluid fighting unit. Define your objectives and practise them in bite size units. As Confucius say "how do you eat an elephant" ?

After all you started this thread on Stick fighting, so we are discussing stick fighting :dance:





Faust
Posts: 1972
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:53 pm

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Faust » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:39 pm

HA. seeing this agile little guy reminds of my traiming partners remark today: to all viewers we must look like bears dancing with toothpicks.
It's true, we're both 1.94 with big frames lumbering around.
It must look hilarious.

I'm right now learning the letters of my abecedario as you call it. Excellent metaphor.
Again, thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge.
Keep challenging the man from Mindanao!
Read Nietzsche

Steel
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:54 am

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Steel » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:09 am

Faust wrote:HA. seeing this agile little guy reminds of my traiming partners remark today: to all viewers we must look like bears dancing with toothpicks.
It's true, we're both 1.94 with big frames lumbering around.
It must look hilarious.

I'm right now learning the letters of my abecedario as you call it. Excellent metaphor.
Again, thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge.
Keep challenging the man from Mindanao!


Then here is some fun homework, and I get to appease my daily sharps sword addiction. :drool: See YT below of another "agile little guy" in his gym. Just how many is he visualising. In fact is he visualising ? Breakdown his dodecahedron like "grouping" as best you can , but most of all be enthused by the idea you can grow old with this art and even as an older man you can move BEAUTIFULLY. Deadly but so beautiful to practise swordsmanship for a cardio / combative type maintenance and a useful skill-set to keep you moving in older age . I just want something to grow old with and something to study.

Mentor to Steel "he was an old man and I thought but he is old and frail, but OH... when he moved"



Faust
Posts: 1972
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:53 pm

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Faust » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:46 am

There are some serious blademen out there and a lot to learn and understand...

Here's another question for you. What do think of the exercise these two practicioners show in the beginning up to min 5:06.
So far I understand it may not directly translate to blades, but it looks like a solid basic setting for stickfighting to me.
But what do I know, so you are my number 1 source to ask :mozilla_smile:
Read Nietzsche

Steel
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:54 am

Re: I started stickfighting!

Postby Steel » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:21 am

Faust wrote:There are some serious blademen out there and a lot to learn and understand...

Here's another question for you. What do think of the exercise these two practicioners show in the beginning up to min 5:06.
So far I understand it may not directly translate to blades, but it looks like a solid basic setting for stickfighting to me.
But what do I know, so you are my number 1 source to ask :mozilla_smile:


Am I missing something here ? :drool:


Return to “Training Equipment”


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users