Martial Arts for a kid advice

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Canis Caelorum
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby Canis Caelorum » Mon May 02, 2016 10:59 pm

speedy wrote: The fact is, unless it's kickboxing or boxing (and I am speaking from experience) most of that stuff really doesn't carry over that much into the real world. There are a few that prove that otherwise but compare them to the majority; well the majority will show it isn't as effective as people believe it to be. Judo is superb for competing but general defense unlikely. Would have some nice carry over if she ever wanted to wrestle or MMA (Ronda Rhousey) but again that should be her idea/choice.


Well, I've been involved in MAs and fight sports pretty much my whole life, and also when I was younger got into a lot of fights all the time at parties, in bars, &c. usually several brawls each night of the weekend... Often interconnected or related to one another throughout the course of the weekend; it's the way it goes. Honestly I believe Judo is excellent for these kinds of situations, I know any time I tossed someone on their heads (with rudimentary TD skills back then too, nothing even close to what a good judoka or wrestler has) and gave them a bit of a kicking, it worked plenty well for me. YMMV... I have noticed you have a pretty low opinion of grappling's efficacy in general though, so perhaps this is showing a little again... I dunno. A buddy of mine wrestled a little in high school, was pretty average and spent half his time drinking beer and smoking weed rather than training very hard... And I still remember in our early twenties, seeing him lay a pretty massive, solid local bar-tough the fuck out when he suplayed him in the carpark. And I mean layed out, dude was sprawled there like a bitch, people throwing beer mugs and peanuts and cigarette butts and shit at him. One split second, went from being known and feared, to laying there pasted on the gravel with people laughing at him and throwing stuff. So obviously, to a degree, it works at least some of the time, yeah? And this wasn't some D1 top-echelon athlete that did it, it was a guy who wrestled a little a few years earlier and not very seriously even at that. Big guy grabbed him by the scruff, Sam hit a duckunder, grabbed the big guy round the waist and BAM.

Now, while I do understand and fully acknowledge that this kind of stuff is, by and large, douchebag young male behavior and of course very far removed from what any of us would be encouraging our children to be doing of a Saturday night, the point I am making is the efficacy in a self defense application. I contend your apparent claim that throwing somebody on their head on the pavement does not work.
With respect

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Arkann
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby Arkann » Tue May 03, 2016 7:09 am

Canis Caelorum wrote:
speedy wrote: The fact is, unless it's kickboxing or boxing (and I am speaking from experience) most of that stuff really doesn't carry over that much into the real world. There are a few that prove that otherwise but compare them to the majority; well the majority will show it isn't as effective as people believe it to be. Judo is superb for competing but general defense unlikely. Would have some nice carry over if she ever wanted to wrestle or MMA (Ronda Rhousey) but again that should be her idea/choice.


Well, I've been involved in MAs and fight sports pretty much my whole life, and also when I was younger got into a lot of fights all the time at parties, in bars, &c. usually several brawls each night of the weekend... Often interconnected or related to one another throughout the course of the weekend; it's the way it goes. Honestly I believe Judo is excellent for these kinds of situations, I know any time I tossed someone on their heads (with rudimentary TD skills back then too, nothing even close to what a good judoka or wrestler has) and gave them a bit of a kicking, it worked plenty well for me. YMMV... I have noticed you have a pretty low opinion of grappling's efficacy in general though, so perhaps this is showing a little again... I dunno. A buddy of mine wrestled a little in high school, was pretty average and spent half his time drinking beer and smoking weed rather than training very hard... And I still remember in our early twenties, seeing him lay a pretty massive, solid local bar-tough the fuck out when he suplayed him in the carpark. And I mean layed out, dude was sprawled there like a bitch, people throwing beer mugs and peanuts and cigarette butts and shit at him. One split second, went from being known and feared, to laying there pasted on the gravel with people laughing at him and throwing stuff. So obviously, to a degree, it works at least some of the time, yeah? And this wasn't some D1 top-echelon athlete that did it, it was a guy who wrestled a little a few years earlier and not very seriously even at that. Big guy grabbed him by the scruff, Sam hit a duckunder, grabbed the big guy round the waist and BAM.

Now, while I do understand and fully acknowledge that this kind of stuff is, by and large, douchebag young male behavior and of course very far removed from what any of us would be encouraging our children to be doing of a Saturday night, the point I am making is the efficacy in a self defense application. I contend your apparent claim that throwing somebody on their head on the pavement does not work.


Agree, @Canis. It doesn't even have to be throwing someone's head around. Getting good on dislocating joints will do the job.

On a side note. You might know from what you have experienced that there is always someone out here who is brutal. Especially if we are talking about street/bar situations. Those guys don't have to be skilled in martial arts. They just crazy enough to kill you without blinking their eye. It might be guys who done time, or ones who grew up surviving by street fighting, or just some nut-heads. So, you are better be ready mentally and physically to face it one day. Having proper skill set and strong character will serve you well. Judo helps with both :clap:

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speedy
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby speedy » Tue May 03, 2016 8:22 am

Canis Caelorum wrote:Now, while I do understand and fully acknowledge that this kind of stuff is, by and large, douchebag young male behavior and of course very far removed from what any of us would be encouraging our children to be doing of a Saturday night, the point I am making is the efficacy in a self defense application. I contend your apparent claim that throwing somebody on their head on the pavement does not work.


Fair enough. I just know a lot of fights results in the throwing of the fists. I just don't see how someone lets say Tae Kwon Do and Tang Soo Do learning to punch with the right hand to the hip, standing in front stances, and so on carries over (keep in mind I was doing Tang Soo Do for 12 years before I went full contact). While your examples I see your point, there are other aspects. You make a valid point about Judo and what not and it's not that I have a bad opinion of it but I don't see anyone wanting to take a street fight to the ground where you grappling on pavement. Now throwing your opponent to the ground to make your point, fair enough. I see that as a good example in terms of Judo.

However, my main point is the repeated term by the OP that "... I want her to get self-defending skill" in varies wording where I say it again, I see it too many times kids being "forced" to do an activity they do NOT want to do and they do not excel at it for they do not want to be there. There is no way for me to know if that will happen here, but I seen it more times than not. THAT'S ALL!
Dr Sara Salomon <---more than just a pretty face. She is smart and has a lot of insight and yes I admit it, easy on the eyes. :mozilla_cool:

pathfighter
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby pathfighter » Tue May 03, 2016 10:26 am

Chiming in with my 2c here. I do think that childhood is a fantastic time to teach either wrestling or judo. All the fighters I've faced who had a childhood in either of those disciplines, but especially in wrestling, had almost superhuman strength and balance. That just can't be taught in adulthood.
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Arkann
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby Arkann » Tue May 03, 2016 10:34 am

pathfighter wrote:Chiming in with my 2c here. I do think that childhood is a fantastic time to teach either wrestling or judo. All the fighters I've faced who had a childhood in either of those disciplines, but especially in wrestling, had almost superhuman strength and balance. That just can't be taught in adulthood.


Thanks!

Canis Caelorum
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby Canis Caelorum » Tue May 03, 2016 3:38 pm

speedy wrote:
However, my main point is the repeated term by the OP that "... I want her to get self-defending skill" in varies wording where I say it again, I see it too many times kids being "forced" to do an activity they do NOT want to do and they do not excel at it for they do not want to be there. There is no way for me to know if that will happen here, but I seen it more times than not. THAT'S ALL!


I see, I may have read too much into it there then. I agree with this last point.
With respect

M.O.B.F.O.E. - Money Over Bitches, Fitness Over Everything

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Primate
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby Primate » Tue May 10, 2016 3:56 am

My son has just turned three and we've taken him down to Judo classes on Saturday morning. He gets pretty shy and he loves to watch, but he doesn't want to participate yet, as he's quite shy. We've decided to give it one more go at a school where his cousin goes, we're hoping that seeing a friendly face there will help get him on the mats. If he' still not keen on getting in and participating we're going to put it off to next year, or until he asks us to go back, no rush.

I had some mats down in the garage the other day and he actually asked if we could do some Judo, so I got on the mats with him and had a bit of a roll around, played some of the games we watched them play at Judo. He had heaps of fun.

As he gets older we want to give him the opportunity to do all kinds of things, gymnastics, football, soccer, whatever, if he gets exposed to it all he can pick and choose what he enjoys and what he wants to keep doing. Not just sports either, we're going to give him a go at dance, music, art, everything. Some things he'll love, some things he won't like at all. Some things he'll be great at, some things he'll suck at. As long as he has fun and figures out what he wants to do that's all that matters.

As far as martial arts for kids, not all were created equal. You want something with progression, discipline, tradition, and element of practicality and a sense of achievement.

Some are heavy on the progression (McDojo belts, etc.) but fall short on the practicality and sense of achievement. Unless you're in the know and have a line on a great school/instructor I'd pretty much give most TKD and Karate schools a miss. Too much chance of landing in some franchise bullshit.

BJJ is great for kids, it has good progression, a great sense of achievement, it's practical, it might not be as traditional as some would like, but that largely depends on the school. However, BJJ is so massive and well known now that there is a McDojo influence in some schools and the quality of instruction isn't as guaranteed as it once was.

Judo, in my opinion, is just about perfect for kids. It never really fell victim to the McDojo franchise crowd. It has a great, but not overwhelming, sense of tradition. It is exceedingly practical (kids learn how to fall safely, how to keep their balance, how to control people, etc.). As far as sense of achievement, Judo is a sport recognised world wide. If a kid excels as Judo they can be a world champion, an Olympian, whatever. Their belt will actually mean something, they don't get a black belt after 6 months.

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Arkann
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby Arkann » Tue May 10, 2016 8:00 am

Primate wrote:My son has just turned three and we've taken him down to Judo classes on Saturday morning. He gets pretty shy and he loves to watch, but he doesn't want to participate yet, as he's quite shy. We've decided to give it one more go at a school where his cousin goes, we're hoping that seeing a friendly face there will help get him on the mats. If he' still not keen on getting in and participating we're going to put it off to next year, or until he asks us to go back, no rush.

I had some mats down in the garage the other day and he actually asked if we could do some Judo, so I got on the mats with him and had a bit of a roll around, played some of the games we watched them play at Judo. He had heaps of fun.

As he gets older we want to give him the opportunity to do all kinds of things, gymnastics, football, soccer, whatever, if he gets exposed to it all he can pick and choose what he enjoys and what he wants to keep doing. Not just sports either, we're going to give him a go at dance, music, art, everything. Some things he'll love, some things he won't like at all. Some things he'll be great at, some things he'll suck at. As long as he has fun and figures out what he wants to do that's all that matters.

As far as martial arts for kids, not all were created equal. You want something with progression, discipline, tradition, and element of practicality and a sense of achievement.

Some are heavy on the progression (McDojo belts, etc.) but fall short on the practicality and sense of achievement. Unless you're in the know and have a line on a great school/instructor I'd pretty much give most TKD and Karate schools a miss. Too much chance of landing in some franchise bullshit.

BJJ is great for kids, it has good progression, a great sense of achievement, it's practical, it might not be as traditional as some would like, but that largely depends on the school. However, BJJ is so massive and well known now that there is a McDojo influence in some schools and the quality of instruction isn't as guaranteed as it once was.

Judo, in my opinion, is just about perfect for kids. It never really fell victim to the McDojo franchise crowd. It has a great, but not overwhelming, sense of tradition. It is exceedingly practical (kids learn how to fall safely, how to keep their balance, how to control people, etc.). As far as sense of achievement, Judo is a sport recognised world wide. If a kid excels as Judo they can be a world champion, an Olympian, whatever. Their belt will actually mean something, they don't get a black belt after 6 months.


Thank you! Appreciate your respond. I tend to go to Judo too after thinking and discussing the topic with friends and athletes and here on forum.

AditiCorp
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby AditiCorp » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:24 am

Both MA and taekwondo are good ideas for kids. You can choose anyone based on the kid's abilities and interests.

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speedy
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Re: Martial Arts for a kid advice

Postby speedy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:20 am

AditiCorp wrote:Both MA and taekwondo are good ideas for kids. You can choose anyone based on the kid's abilities and interests.

IMHO you ONLY excel at Tae Kwon Do if you have the natural gymnastic ability.
Dr Sara Salomon <---more than just a pretty face. She is smart and has a lot of insight and yes I admit it, easy on the eyes. :mozilla_cool:


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