Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby?

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LukeSeubert
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Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby?

Postby LukeSeubert » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:34 am

Next Spring, I plan to go out for the local D3 rugby football club. My size and height make me a candidate for loose forward, likely one of the two lock positions.

The team works with newbies like me in developing sport specific rugby skills during practice and through scrimmage and pickup games. They also encourage players to work on strength and conditioning on their own time, outside of three-a-week rugby practices.

I know that Never Gymless and Infinite Intensity provide a well-mixed balance of training across various fitness domains, most especially suited for combative sports.

Rugby likewise requires high degrees of fitness in many areas. Am I correct that NG and II provide a good template for putting together my own strength and conditioning regimen for rubgy?

Could seasoned rugby players point out any variations to the NG and II 50 Day plans I should consider, to adapt the workouts more ideally for rugby?

Thank you.

demarcoa
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Re: Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby

Postby demarcoa » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:41 am

They will make you stronger and better conditioned. Thus, as long as you tool them so that they don't adversely affect your recovery for field practice, NG and II will be good for rugby.

LukeSeubert
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Re: Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby

Postby LukeSeubert » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:51 am

demarcoa wrote:They will make you stronger and better conditioned. Thus, as long as you tool them so that they don't adversely affect your recovery for field practice, NG and II will be good for rugby.

Thank you, demarcoa.

You raise a valid concern, one I have been pondering. Rugby practices are scheduled for Tuesday and Thursday evenings, and Saturday mid-mornings. I have attended several field practices, which consist of a lot of touch rugby along with some skill drills. There is likely more going on though, that just the few practices I have seen

Any thoughts on integrating the NG/II 4-On, 1-Off schedule with this rugby practice schedule? I would do the NG/II workouts early in the morning, which should help out, except on Saturdays.

demarcoa
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Re: Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby

Postby demarcoa » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:48 am

Well, your workouts won't always be the same and neither will practices so you might have to play it by ear, go easier than planned on some lifting days, and so on. Sadly, it's not as simple as setting one schedule... you might have to move things around from one week to another.
Just be sure to prioritize rugby over the lifting/hard conditioning that you do.

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David_89
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Re: Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby

Postby David_89 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:34 am

If you are able I would still work the barbell lifts in to your programming. Also, be prepared to cut down on your fitness work a little if it means better skills work.

counterpuncher
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Re: Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby

Postby counterpuncher » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:00 pm

Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the coach and other players about what kind of strength and conditioning drills they recommend.
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

LukeSeubert
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Re: Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby

Postby LukeSeubert » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:05 pm

demarcoa wrote:Just be sure to prioritize rugby over the lifting/hard conditioning that you do.

David_89 wrote:If you are able I would still work the barbell lifts in to your programming. Also, be prepared to cut down on your fitness work a little if it means better skills work.

That is sound advice guys, favoring rugby work over strength and conditioning work.

Actually implementing this advice will be a tough juggling act for me. I am quite unfit, and I need a LOT of training in many areas. Just to play rugby, I'll have to work on lot on strength and conditioning, as well as the specific rugby skills.

Oh, and David, I am presenting slowly working through Rippetoe's Starting Strength program using barbells.

By way of background, I am 46 years old and have been severely obese and unfit albeit otherwise healthy my entire life. I have lost over 160 pounds in the past 64+ weeks, through patience and persistence. I have during that time also exercised, albeit moderately. When you are really heavy, you can't do deadlifts with proper form or hill sprints without injury. Now that I am lighter, I do perform such exercises, but not with high volume or frequency due to a restricted calorie diet. Once the last 50 pounds of fat is gone, I am switching over to an athletic training diet and gradually ramping up the intensity, volume, and frequency of exercise.

Those who are curious to know more details can take a look at my Workout Log which I started last year over on the CrossFit Forum:

LukeSeubert
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Re: Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby

Postby LukeSeubert » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:18 pm

counterpuncher wrote:Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the coach and other players about what kind of strength and conditioning drills they recommend.

Ahhh.... hummmm. Yeah.... I did that. They told me a word which is kind of a bad word around here, just like it is on Rippetoe's Starting Strength forum. That word is "CrossFit". :naughty:

Guys, I have read the controversy over Crossfit in other threads in this forum. I do not wish to turn this thread into a CrossFit flammage zone.

Suffice to say that I really like NG and II because they can be done from a home gym, which fits in better with my schedule and budget and temperament. I actually find some broad similarities between CrossFit principles and RossTraining principles, although there are some important differences in execution and structure.

The CrossFit cybercommunity has been very good to me, as I hope I have been in turn towards it. Please see the link in the previous post for examples of the support I have received over the past year.

My hope is to cultivate a similar positive and mutually beneficial relationship with the RossTraining cybercommunity as I come to the end of the major fat loss phase of my journey, and begin my radically improved fitness journey.

SteveTaylor
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Re: Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby

Postby SteveTaylor » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:36 pm

Always remember that this is actually very easy :-)

First of all the most important thing is, as you have identified, the rugby skill training sessions.
These will include elements of strength and conditioning in them anyway as well as the skill training.

Once you are able to do all of these sessions per week, which you are, then you can try adding more stuff in.

Ask your coach to give you the priority for training - strength (endurance or max) or conditioning?

Once he has told you then add an extra session for that in per week.
See how it feel after a couple of weeks - when you are ready add in another routine, for whichever one you want to focus on.

You do not need to drop into the 40 day plan whilst juggling rugby as well - if you are reasonably new it will simply kill you and be very frustrating.

The biggest killer of trainees is lack of patience, they try to add every exercise they see and end up spinning their wheels for a few months and eventually quit. Luckily you have your brain switched on by the look of it so this wil not be you.

Eat well, rest well, train smart, be patient!!!
Training priority for combat sport is SKILL, CONDITIONING, STRENGTH.
I swear I will smash your face in with a brick if you keep arguing!

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LukeSeubert
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Re: Do NG and II Provide A Sound Training Template For Rugby

Postby LukeSeubert » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:29 pm

SteveTaylor wrote:Always remember that this is actually very easy :-)

It is?!?!? Playing rugby is a cakewalk? Huh. And here I thought it was going to be really tough and all. Gosh, I'm sorta disappointed - I was hoping for a real challenge. Maybe I should try something that'll really kick my ass. Hmmm. Wait, I know! Badminton! YEESSSSSSS!!!! :dance:

SteveTaylor wrote:First of all the most important thing is, as you have identified, the rugby skill training sessions.
These will include elements of strength and conditioning in them anyway as well as the skill training.

I actually participated in a session of touch rubgy with the team when I visited one of the practices. And yes, I immediately realized that I need plenty of conditioning work. Conditioning and upper body strength (all the differents kinds of strength) are my most glaring weaknesses. Core and lower body strength are relatively better by comparison, but poor overall. I have a lot of work to do in the coming months and years.

SteveTaylor wrote:Once you are able to do all of these sessions per week, which you are, then you can try adding more stuff in. Ask your coach to give you the priority for training - strength (endurance or max) or conditioning? Once he has told you then add an extra session for that in per week. See how it feel after a couple of weeks - when you are ready add in another routine, for whichever one you want to focus on. You do not need to drop into the 40 day plan whilst juggling rugby as well - if you are reasonably new it will simply kill you and be very frustrating.

Steve, I'll follow up on that advice to consult with the coach. Pre-season conditioning starts in late January and runs through March, which should give the coach enough time to assess where I need more focused work. This is followed by plenty of spring scrimmages and pickup games, Summer 7's (which I don't know about just yet - would be great for conditioning), and then the main Fall season. So I'll have a good seven months of rugby skills as well as strength and conditioning work before the main season. I can improve quite a bit in that amount of time, though I'll still be quite raw.

In further thinking about the Tue-Thu-Sat rugby practice/match schedule and the II/NG 4-On, 1-Off schedule, here is what I came up with:

Given my age and poor fitness, I'll need time for recovery and rest until I get more fit. Three-a-week rugby practices takes priority. I'll drop the 4-On, 1-Off schedule, and instead intersperse those four II/NG workouts with the rugby practices over the course of one full week. That means doing those four workouts over seven days instead of four days, along with rugby practices. Likely this will be too much work, especially at first, so I'll drop II/NG workouts as needed to allow for sufficient rest and recovery. I'll adapt the strength focused workouts to my specific strength needs, but mostly keep the conditioning workouts, scaled to my fitness level but still challenging.

SteveTaylor wrote:The biggest killer of trainees is lack of patience, they try to add every exercise they see and end up spinning their wheels for a few months and eventually quit. Luckily you have your brain switched on by the look of it so this wil not be you.

Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that brain switched on part. :mozilla_smile:

Over the past year of weight loss with large daily caloric deficits, I have repeatedly let enthusiasm get the better of me and wound up over-exercising. Nothing disastrous that a few days of rest couldn't cure, but still too much exercise which my diet couldn't sustain. And even though I know better, even still today, I occasionally do overexercise. On the one hand, it is good that I have so much enthusiasm and like the work. I am really looking forward to a normal diet when I'll be able to workout a lot more.

But, I have to temper that enthusiasm so that I can train properly, and build up greater recovery capacity, so that some day I can train as intensely and frequently as my ambitions. Happily, I have learned a lot about the power of patience and persistence over the past year.


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